My son and I were discussing how sad it is that WE as Christians are often part of the reason people are resistant to Christianity. Failing to do what we KNOW to be correct, some of us, through our actions, mistreatment of others or failure to serve others push away the ones we are supposed to be helping. More than this, the squabbling of many Christians, our inability to get along even with our brethren, sets a terrible example. I try very hard to conduct myself in a manner befitting the one whose name I bare. As a Christian I know that how I conduct myself towards others is one of the most OBVIOUS measures of the fruit of the spirit (or lack thereof) in my life. I occasionally have discussions online that I feel are instructive as to how we are to live. I have had a conversation with a person online and the back and forth has been interesting to say the least. I will post ALL the pertinent quotes, in their entirety so that you can see what was said by all parties. For RonMar..I will also CLEALRY mark with asterisks the NEW responses to your most recent correspondence. I will also bold and italicize every example of your name calling and abuse for easy reference…….
This whole discussion started with a post by a racist on godfather politics Traphill25 to which I responded. This was followed by a response by RonMar. My responses as Preacher Cruz will be here marked as TM for Truth ministries.
Traphill25: Next they will want a National Holiday off the same week as MLK. Hope someone takes 3 more of the Nigs out and we will get a whole week off!!
TM: Traphil. you may or may not be a Conservative but you aren’t much of a Christian. Intentional and repeated abuse of anyone who doesn’t agree with you along with outdated, UN-Christian views on race show that you must not be a Bible believing Christian. A lesson on Race In America & The Bible http://kjv-truth-ministries.or…
RonMar: Preacher what Deity died and left you as the judge of His created ones?
TM: Hmm? Well, firstly you might want to brush up on what the Bible ACTUALLY says about judging http://kjv-truth-ministries.or… but ultimately…. You judge a tree by its fruit. What fruit can someone bear while slinging insults and inappropriate racial slurs?
RonMar: Self-named Preacher my computer does not bring up a website http://kjv-truth-ministries. on the entire Internet, and what’s with the “or?” How about you just refer to Book, Chapter and Verse(s) of a real Holy Bible if you have or have ever read one. Maybe you meant .org instead of “or.” I’m not going to waste my time with you trying to guess what you meant or mean about anything you have posted here or anywhere else. Either get it right or expect to be ignored from now on, as you so richly deserve.
TM: First, allow me to apologize. I wrongly assumed you were one of the millions of people who say “judge NOT” while forgetting that isn’t the entire verse or even half the story. We are called to judge all things using the mind of Christ but cautioned to not be hypocritical. In regards to who is “qualified”, I really won’t get drawn into a contest with you. Not simply because you may have more education on the subject as I freely concede you may, but because God is not concerned with such things. Did Jesus or the Apostles have formalized religious or ministerial training? No, but I am sure you know who did, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Even today we have people like Rob Bell who cast off traditional thought and good doctrine for who knows what other purpose(s), teaching rebranded Universalism and selling millions of books doing it.
I think that part of our trouble here may lie in mutual lack of communication or misunderstanding. I already apologized for my part. You seem to have missed that my original post was directed to Traphil who has a LONG history of abuses and racial rhetoric. HE is who I was originally addressing and then AGAIN, when responding to those who answered my addressing him. I never accused you of anything. That was misunderstanding. You however, for whatever reason leapt to questioning and attacking me, as with the repeated use of “Preacher”. I will put it this way, my ordination states Reverend but I will not use that title believing that reverence belongs to the Lord (Psalm 111:9). I instead choose to
be called Preacher or just plain Robert. The “title” doesn’t matter to me. Here are a few scripture references to why I go by Preacher.. Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?1 Corinthians 9:18 what is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
I will lastly point out that for someone who took offense at the mere THOUGHT they were using insults or being racist you are very inconsistent. You attempt to paint me as less worthy to work for the Lord than you and then proceed to say “…I don’t know you, don’t want to, and you matter so little to me.” All of this based on ONE false perception since I never called you a racist or said you were insulting anyone. Shouldn’t all souls and people matter to you? I understand that you THOUGHT I had maligned you. However, you were wrong to think that and further, you were wrong in your response. I forgive you as I of course have had moments where I reacted poorly or inappropriately too. We are all of us fallible.
Actually my lengthy post was meant to be a response to your first post. I would also like to point out that this SITE often abbreviates page info, hence the .or. I would think that someone with advanced degrees and some computer knowledge would know that I meant .org but the link was also clickable. I hope that whatever upset you has passed because you were unkind and abusive to me. That is not the conduct of any morally superior agent and certainly not a good example of Christianity. We all have our off days though! God bless
I also thought that I had posted this almost three weeks ago! I was trying to check to make sure I hadn’t missed any responses and I saw that my response wasn’t there!
RonMar: Wow, preachercrud, can’t let it go. It’s been so long I’d forgotten all about you. Please don’t try making your whiny, crybaby excuses with me, and don’t dare trying to preach to me, lord yourself over me, comment on my conduct while you are doing the same or worse.
I see you as a money-grubbing charlatan, a false teacher and preacher like those we are warned about in the Bible. You really ought to read it sometime, pray for forgiveness and seek salvation.
That’s all I can do to help you. Remember the part where I said you deserve to be ignored. It is now fully in effect following this post to you.
Goodbye and good luck, you need lots of luck in your present condition.
RonMar: Preacher look, I said I was through with you wasting my time while I have far more important things to do in pursuit of my ministry. I am chastising myself right now for breaking my promise to myself about you. But I will take the items in the order you presented them.
Apologies are wasted effort. The best “apology” is not to do ever again the thing that offended. That is Biblical. The Lord God, Jesus the Christ will not forgive you if you keep doing the same thing(s) over and over, apologizing for them and repeating the pattern endlessly. You should know that as well as a lot of other things you don’t seem to know, comprehend or understand.You can and should stop it with this nonsense, game playing too – “I wrongly assumed you were one of the millions of people who say “judge NOT” while forgetting” … blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I believe you are lying first to yourself, you have entered into a contest with me. Stop it, please.“Education” is not the issue; Holiness, truth and faithfulness to Christian behavior is. I am confident you are near clueless about the true nature of the Lord God, Jesus the Christ and the Holy Spirit. I am astounded by your ignorance at asking this, “Did Jesus or the Apostles have …?” and saying this, “No, but I am sure you know who did, the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”The correct answer is, Jesus, Son of God, one of the Trinity had no need for religious or ministerial training. Most of the Apostles had “formalized religious [and] ministerial training” with the greatest teacher of all time – Jesus the Christ – some of them for near 3 ½ years with Him. The Apostle Paul was a learned man and went to the other, few surviving Apostles to seek their approval of him as acceptable to them after his Damascus road experience. Paul in turn trained Timothy and others. You should know all of that, but apparently you do not. Read the Bible, please.
I have no idea who Rob Bells is, nor do I care much. I am not interested in knowing. He is irrelevant to me, as you are also. are also.
You may have communication or understanding problems, but I do not. Beg for an apology all you want. One is not forthcoming from me. I have no reason to apologize to you. I have not offended you as you have me.
You offended me at the outset, otherwise I would never have posted to or responded to you. It has been so long ago and so many more important things to me have happened and still are happening I do not even recall how you started this fiasco, and I do not care to know enough even to look it up or read your trying to tell me. (TM: asked and answered since I showed this all started due to a misunderstood response to Traphill!)
What you think is not important at all to me. What you believe may be important to me and to others.It does not matter to whom you were posting. You posted on a worldwide public website, and I saw it as others most likely did also.I am no more interested in what you have to say judging Traphil than I am in your judging me. My purposes here are to learn and teach, not judge. You have shown absolutely no ability to teach or learn, but infinite capacity to misunderstand, miscommunicate, judge, waste your time, mine and others.There is no such word in the English language as “leapt.” I have not attacked you but rather tried to teach you. If you view questioning as an attack on you that reveals your own weaknesses and vulnerability. It has nothing to do with me.This is perhaps your most incredible statement, “with the repeated use of ‘Preacher.’” Listen Preacher, I call you Preacher because that is the user name you use here. Sheesh!your beliefs about ordination, plain Robert and dare give me a boatload of irrelevant to me Scripture references trying to justify your beliefs on that one subject.All I care to know about your ordination is who, by what title, authority, description in relationship to you ordained you. You have refused to answer that or any other question I have asked you. Thus you left and leave me no choice but to regard you as a false preacher, teacher, minister, Reverend, whatever, and based on what little you have revealed here, a profiteer using the Gospel for your own worldly gain.Here are some clues for you: I was commissioned to ministry by proper authority. I refused ordination by several denominations I consider deep in sin and working against God, not with or for Him. I have refused and will never accept money for the ministry I have done, am doing and expect to continue doing until the day I leave this Earth. God has provided well for me, so well, I share sacrificially at times with others of His bountiful gifts to me.Here are some clues for you: I was commissioned to ministry by proper authority. I refused ordination by several denominations I consider deep in sin and working against God, not with or for Him. I have refused and will never accept money for the ministry I have done, am doing and expect to continue doing until the day I leave this Earth. God has provided well for me, so well, I share sacrificially at times with others of His bountiful gifts to me.
believe may be important to me and to others.
It does not matter to whom you were posting. You posted on a worldwide public website, and I saw it as others most likely did also.
I am no more interested in what you have to say judging Traphil than I am in your judging me. My purposes here are to learn and teach, not judge. You have shown absolutely no ability to teach or learn, but infinite capacity to misunderstand, miscommunicate, judge, waste your time, mine and others.There is no such word in the English language as “leapt.” I have not attacked you but rather tried to teach you. If you view questioning as an attack on you that reveals your own weaknesses and vulnerability. It has nothing to do with me.
This is perhaps your most incredible statement, “with the repeated use of ‘Preacher.’” Listen Preacher, I call you Preacher because that is the user name you use here. Sheesh!your beliefs about ordination, plain Robert and dare give me a boatload of irrelevant to me Scripture references trying to justify your beliefs on that one subject.
All I care to know about your ordination is who, by what title, authority, description in relationship to you ordained you. You have refused to answer that or any other question I have asked you. Thus you left and leave me no choice but to regard you as a false preacher, teacher, minister, Reverend, whatever, and based on what little you have revealed here, a profiteer using the Gospel for your own worldly gain.Here are some clues for you: I was commissioned to ministry by proper authority. I refused ordination by several denominations I consider deep in sin and working against God, not with or for Him. I have refused and will never accept money for the ministry I have done, am doing and expect to continue doing until the day I leave this Earth. God has provided well for me, so well, I share sacrificially at times with others of His bountiful gifts to me.
Here are some clues for you: I was commissioned to ministry by proper authority. I refused ordination by several denominations I consider deep in sin and working against God, not with or for Him. I have refused and will never accept money for the ministry I have done, am doing and expect to continue doing until the day I leave this Earth. God has provided well for me, so well, I share sacrificially at times with others of His bountiful gifts to me.
*************TM: You never fail to disappoint with your open, obvious and repeated abuse and name calling! Starting off your post with preachercrud? Insulting my family name, which btw means cross or crucifix in Spanish is a great way to show your moral and intellectual superiority. You continue this theme with more demeaning statements, arrogance and false witness! You display NO love or humility. You assume that I could have NOTHING to teach you and then go on to make GROSSLY unfair statements. Pray tell, since ALL of our posts are here, WHERE can you show a SINGLE example of me doing the same or worse as you? How you “see me” strongly suggests that you need vision correction of a spiritual nature. My family supports our ministry out of our own personal finances. I am NOT paid for my ministry efforts and our ministry site has only ever received ONE donation of $40 that helped in printing gospel tracts with the ministry name on them. WHAT evidence do you have that I am unfamiliar with the Bible, don’t pray or am unsaved? If we judge a tree by its fruit and I remain calm under fire while you launch vitriolic attacks what does this say about our respective relationships with Christ.
Your statements aside you have NO evidence that I have done anything for which I need to apologize even ONCE. I…..VOLUNTARILY, apologized for saying that you should read up on judging. I tried to display humility and love by admitting that I knew I could be wrong and that you might have been offended by my statement. YOU repeatedly tell me to read my Bible and malign my comprehension etc and you refuse to acknowledge that you could have POSSIBLY done any wrong! YOU are the one who called me out from the start and made an issue of your “superiority” in the Lord and education. I am in no contest with you. I only need to prove myself to the Lord. I owe you no accounting. You claim to hold TRUTH in high regard, as do I. THAT is why I don’t let this go. NOT because I want to win in some online spitting contest but because I can’t abide false witness, dishonesty and mischaracterization. Since you repeatedly tell me how much smarter you are than I, it would seem you should get the meaning behind my statement on formalized ministerial training. Jesus didn’t need it (being God) and the apostles did NOT, for the most part have it as they were taken from the common populace, fishermen, tax collector, tent maker, an activist etc. Rob Bell is a seminary graduate and former Pastor at Mars Hill in Michigan, he has also written many books including Love Wins in which he rehashes Universalism and tells people that all will get to heaven somehow! A quick internet search would tell you all this but you seem to be SO sure that you already know all you need and that I have NOTHING to offer you that you won’t even look into something that you ADMIT you have no knowledge of. All the while you keep on insinuating that I don’t know my Bible….
I have already shown that you DO have issues with communication and comprehension but I will break it down for you. IF you lose your temper during a debate you have probably already lost. IF you need to name call and abuse others, you have probably already lost. I have shown before and certainly have NOW that You…MISTAKENLY assumed that “slinging insults and inappropriate racial slurs” applied to you. It did NOT. Even if it were directed at you, would this somehow justify your repeated abuse of me in return? Since you want to claim I don’t know the Bible how about these verses? Romans 12:14,17 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.ALL of Ephesians Chapter 4 would be good with particular emphasis on Ephesians 4:1-7,15,25-26 & 29-32. 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:…….24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:…29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
I could give you numerous other scriptures about loving your neighbor AND your enemy, speaking only what we know, bearing false witness etc. You will likely ignore ALL of it because you are absolutely SURE that you are perfect in this situation and I am wrong. I don’t beg for ANYTHING except the mercy and grace of the Lord. I could care less if you refuse to apologize it doesn’t hurt me it hurts YOU in the Lord and affects your witness to be so unrepentantly condescending, arrogant, abusive and intransigent. I have shown that I did NOT offend you (unless you count my saying read up on judging statement which I apologized for) and that you have REPEATEDLY insulted and abused me and yet you stubbornly insist you have done NO wrong and have nothing to apologize for. When you say that you are here to teach and learn and then say that I have no ability to teach OR learn (in direct contradiction of the evidence BTW) you are showing only your stunning lack of humility and an unwarranted and unhealthy pride. Here is just ONE example of what I could teach you if you were open to the idea that I might have anything of worth to share with you…Leapt absolutely IS a word in the English language it is a past tense and a past participle of leap. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/leapt
Your questions don’t faze me and I certainly don’t view them as an attack, MOST of the “questions” you asked, were asked rudely or you answered yourself with snide and condescending responses. I already KNOW that anything I share with you about my education or ordination you will find ways to poke holes in to paint yourself as the better educated, more righteous and more proper servant of the Lord. If you must know I have no formal education other than auditing a few classes. I sought ordination myself through Saint Luke Evangelical Christian Ministries & your attempt to paint me as reticent to answer is juvenile since this information is READILY available on my about page at Truth Ministries. I already know that you will rail against my ordination through a “mail order Ministry” but you have no idea how many years I served in various churches. How many times I pushed back against false teaching and asked questions that made leadership uncomfortable. You have no idea how many hours of study I have dedicated to the Bible, Christian Apologetics, Theology and doctrine. I was actively restrained from any teaching in one church that I was a loyal member of through no wrong or fault of my own. I serve the Lord through Truth Ministries and in my community and I have done so making not one dollar for myself. My family has not been blessed much financially and yet we support this ministry and help others too. For us it TRULY is sacrificially since we do these things NOT out of an abundance. I don’t hold to prosperity doctrine and don’t think material gain proves a proper relationship with God. God placed a calling upon my life many years ago. I fought it and struggled against God out of doubts as to my worthiness. You would of course agree with my previous doubts about myself while having NO doubt of your own worth in service to God. I also would like to point out that I wouldn’t have been as willing as you are to share information about my finances and my charitable work for the Lord and wouldn’t have done so had you not called me a profiteer on two occasions!
See, you continue to conduct yourself dishonestly. You claim that education isn’t important but you then wish to belittle my education, my ordination and my service for the Lord. You mischaracterize me repeatedly based on NO evidence other than your opinion, you insult abuse and belittle me and then hold yourself out to be the better man and Christian. I am not angry with you, I will pray for you.
In closing I ask you to consider how a third party may view all the posts that have been offered. Who has spoken truthfully and respectfully? Who has conducted themselves in a more proper Christian manner?
It doesn’t matter. God is the Judge of all things, not you and not me. I am officially done with you and will NOT respond to you again if the tenor of the conversation is unchanged. God bless and keep you.*************
P.S. My wife couldn’t believe RonMar was a Christian based on how he addressed me and how he leapt to character assasination based on a couple of posts and NO real knowledge of me as a person a Christian or this ministry. She decided RonMar must be a Liberal troll pretending to be a Christian to make us all look bad.