A Quick Response to Actor/Comedian Stephen Fry!

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I just saw today that this man made headlines when asked what he might say if he actually saw God in Heaven by saying “I think I’d say, ‘Bone cancer in children?’ What’s that about? How dare you. How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right. It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain?’ That’s what I would say.”

After he was told he might not get to heaven, he went on to say “I wouldn’t want to. I wouldn’t want to get in on his terms. They’re wrong…….the god that created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac, totally selfish. We have to spend our life on our knees thanking Him?…. Atheism isn’t just about not believing there’s a God, but on the assumption that there is one, what kind of god is he? It’s perfectly apparent that he is monstrous, utterly monstrous, and deserves no respect whatsoever. The moment you banish him, your life becomes simpler, purer, cleaner, more worth living, in my opinion.”

Where to begin? OK first of all, one should get NO credit for presenting arguments that have been well and thoroughly addressed and REFUTED, as if they’re somehow new, witty or clever. I am not an expert Theologian or a master of Christian Apologetics but allow me to offer here just a few simple answers that I am MORE than sure Mr. Fry has heard before..

When Mr. Fry talks about “right, misery, evil, injustice, pain, capriciousness and meanness”? He is actually appealing to the Judeo-Christian worldview. Follow me here… IF we are animals and we reject God or to go further, deny his existence, where and how does right and wrong play into anything? Does he really not see how silly and childish it is; to simultaneously say something doesn’t exist while hating it and calling it names? Right and wrong, good and evil, injustice etc have NO objective foundations, let alone meaning, in a world where random chance starts life, while rape, violence and murder sustain it!

Why does NO one rail against the injustice and cruelty of “nature”? These exact same problems exist in the Atheistic worldview even if we remove God. I guess the argument then is one of morality? Nature can’t choose to do anything but God chooses to or allows these things to happen? Putting aside that the Bible clearly shows that God gave us a perfect world and we rejected it. Choosing instead to do the ONE thing God asked us not to do. The idea of arguing morality with he who created everything, including law which creates morality, seems an exercise in futility. Especially while trying to say such a lawgiver does not exist!

Why do Atheists feel SO obligated to talk about something that doesn’t exist? I don’t sit and have arguments with people who believe in the Earth being flat, faked moon landings etc.  They’re entitled to their “beliefs” even if I think they’re foolish.  I do not feel obligated to argue with people who believe in nonsense.  A fair question is WHY do they?

Basically, Mr. Fry has fallen into the fallacious trap that MANY Atheists step into… God does NOT exist and I hate him! You can’t have it both ways. I would say that Mr. Fry is absolutely WRONG in his assessment that life gets “purer, cleaner or more worth living” once one rejects God. As already stated, purity or any objective standard of better or worse that applies to all people, has NO place in the life of any animal nor Atheist.  Furthermore, the vast majority of people serving themselves have found it to be shallow and devoid of any real meaning or value; while those who find ways to help others often find great satisfaction. I do not believe that one can find their lives MORE worth living by serving themselves first. The ONY concession I will make to Mr. Frys’ statement is that in SOME ways, life IS Simpler if we deny God and live for ourselves. It is VERY simple to live for yourself.

Mr. Fry also takes issue with God allowing Misery that is “Not our fault” as if it would be okay if all Misery were created by man but we know that is not what he means. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Marx and anyone else who creates evil and misery is actually GODS’ fault for “allowing it to happen”… Free will has consequences and God didn’t create puppets.

As far as children with cancer or pretty much anything “unfair” like hurricanes, starvation etc  there is one answer that most people never seem to see… Those are the times that people tend to come together and help and love each other, the SINGULAR instances in time where most people see past themselves… That alone could be the reason God allows such things, as a chance for us to show the love and grace that God has shown unto us. Isn’t it funny how no one wishes to give God credit for ALL the minute details that had to be just so to allow life on this planet to exist at all but wish to lay blame for anything they perceive to be wrong squarely at his feet?

I could go on but I am sure I will get the chance to say more in the comments section!

  • Chris Weller

    Great stuff Preacher. I also suspect that Mr.Fry, being a homosexual and recently married to his lover, may also be trying to justify his lifestyle. It is indeed fascinating that those who deny God and tell everyone how wonderful life would be without any religion always neglect to mention the likes of (as you noted) Pol Pot Stalin etc etc. They also seem to ignore the testimonies of those who survived the horrors of atheistic regimes. The stories that come out of Myanmar or North Korea concerning the treatment of Christians are the stuff of nightmares. Atheists always overlook someone elses right to believe in a God yet scream about free speech and fairness blah blah of course, only according to their definitions. They’ll also ignore the contributions to society from Christians as well as the various societies created by them. For them to beleive in something like random evolution as opposed to a Creator and yet live by the very laws of the land that were inspired by Gods own words and then tell us that we should behave towardst each other in the spirit of those laws is a massive contradiction in even the most basic of logic.

    • Sorry, Chris. Didn’t realize i never responded or thanked you for reading and posting a response!

      Undoubtedly, Mr Frys’ worldview is being informed by his own desires and choices..

      I have come to see that NO person is truly is an Atheist. The Bible speaks truthfully that the FOOL hath said in his heart there is no God and also that what may be known about God has been sewed into them, even his eternal power and Godhead so tat they are without excuse..

      I can accept the Agnostic viewpoint but not the Atheist.. After all, I don’t remember ANY branch of “Science” proving God doesn’t exist.

      In my article on this site When Theft Is Called Charity I talk about how the Left and Most Democrats ONLY wish to bring up God as a bludgeon to try to make us feel bad for not doing what THEY think is right..

  • tasharina1

    Great article.
    When I get in a discussion about why doesn’t God prevent bad things from happening to us, then I say. So, do you want God to come here and micromanage your life? Do you want him to stop you from doing all the things that are bad for you? Do you want him to make all your choices for you and force you to do the right thing all the time? The answer is always no. I’m sure Fry would be very upset if God came here and stopped him from practicing homosexuality and entering into an unholy marriage. Even when homosexuals started dropping like flies from AIDs, it didn’t even slow them down. Even when heterosexuals started dying from VDs, it didn’t slow them down either. They all just got medical science to create drugs so they could continue to do what they want.

    People don’t seem to realize that most of the things they do, from their own volition, are bad for them and by experiencing the consequences of their own actions, they are supposed to learn from them. If we are forced to do good and not allowed to be bad, then we will never learn how to live a good life and God will always have to be controlling us, since we won’t know how to control ourselves. When someone orders us to do something and we ask why and they say, just do it, we tend to refuse to do it anyways. It is in our nature to need to know why we are doing things and how things work because, deep inside we know we are going to be responsible for our actions.

    As far as other deadly illnesses. You are right, that it is another learning experience. But, it is also because we are under the control of the nature of this planet and illness and disease are part of that. As Jesus showed us. If we believe enough in our Father in Heaven, we can take ourselves out of the natural world, into His world, where anything can be healed.

    Another thing, is that people forget that they chose what they wanted to experience and what hardships they wanted to overcome. So, for me, I don’t want God to interfere when I might be at the end of a hardship that I will have to do over again, if He does. So, I pray for Him to help me through it by giving me the strength and love I need to overcome it. That’s why I pray for it to happen if it is His will, because he knows what is best for me and I don’t.

    It is like you see your child learning to ride a bike and they fall and you want to run over and pick them up. But you know if you do, your child won’t learn to get back up and try again till they get it right. I think that is how God is. He sees us hurting ourselves and would love to help, but knows if He does it will ruin the learning experience.

    Plus, He is just waiting for us to ask Him for help, but it usually isn’t the kind of help people think they want. They think they want Him to not let them fall, but what we really need is what I said above. The strength, love and belief He can give us to overcome pain and adversity, so we can become self sufficient and not have to keep making the same painful mistakes over and over again.

    • Thanks for reading and taking the time to respond!

      You writing about how all these things are basically allowed due to our own choices reminds me of how MUCH I have been having to confront Calvinistic Predestiny flavored Christians who completely DENY that man has a free will choice in anything EXCEPT sinning… Sad.

      • tasharina1

        Thank you for responding back to my long long post.

        I didn’t know what sins meant or were until I did a bunch of things that hurt me and I found out. Really all a sin is, is when we go against God’s will for us. His basic will for us is when we sin and get hurt, to learn from it and to stop doing that to ourselves.That’s why we are all sinners because we all do things to hurt ourselves and others. The problem is, when we sin and get hurt and keep doing the same thing, expecting God to step in and prevent it, then get mad at Him, like it’s His fault. Then, when He doesn’t, we think that gives us permission to keep sinning and hurting ourselves, thinking up ways we can avoid the consequences, which we never can.

        Actually, I think God wants us to learn to be happy, loved and loving, wherever we are at. But, not too happy and comfortable here, making us want to stay here forever. We need to finish up our lessons here and yearn to move on to get back to Him.

        I don’t know about Calvinistic Predestiny, but I do know that God has it all figured out, under control and knows the outcome. He has it set up to where He knows we are all going to get there, just not what we will be like when we get there. What kind of being we are going to be depends on the paths we choose along the way, what we learn or don’t learn from them and how we react to and what we do with all of that. But, all paths eventually lead back to Him. Some are very very slow learners and take a seemingly forever path through hell on the way. So, it does totally matter what we do and how we do things on the way back since, yes, we do determine and are responsible for how we end up being.

        At least that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

        • Opinions are one thing and we are all entitled to them… Gods TRUTH is another thing altogether. I encourage you to see What IS Truth http://www.kjv-truth-ministries.org/what-is-truth/ Pilate said to Jesus in John 18:38 What is truth?

          Ultimately, what you advocate in an all paths lead to God position is Universalism.

          Universalism denies the truth of Christs payment for us and whole HOSTS of scripture that says there is only ONE way and that those who reject and deny Christ will be denied before the father…

          I am of course open to a through discussion on this or any Theological subject. God bless.

          • tasharina1

            Well, many people take the wrong paths before finding their way to the one true path. Just because someone takes a wrong path doesn’t mean they won’t be allowed back onto the true path, back to our Father. That’s what forgiveness and redemption are for.

            Also, I just don’t believe that our Father Creator would start this whole universe for his children to explore without a plan to make sure we all make it back to Him. How about the prodigal son?

            There’s some things I know from looking inside, to the Father that is in me, to help me interpret things in the Bible. I trust that more than having others interpret it for me. But, I do love to hear how others interpret things and know I could learn from others too.

            Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

          • PreacherCruz

            As a Bible believing Christian one should settle all matters with his word. When we start thinking about our feelings, our thoughts and what seems right to us, we rather miss the bigger picture..

            Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

            Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

            Reading the stories of Job or Abraham and Isaac or even the sacrifice of Christ and we might, quite naturally say “That doesn’t seem fair, right etc”…

            The thing is GOD is holy, righteous and perfect in ALL his ways. The Bible has a LOT to say about those who choose THEIR way over Gods. Whether we’re talking about Satan and the other fallen or humans who reject Christ we are told, REPEATEDLY, that There is ONE way unto the father.

            There is NO Purgatory, there are no second chances.

            Hebrews 9:27-28

            And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

            28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

            Certainly, the Holy Spirit helps us to learn and grown in understanding of Gods’ word but we need to be searching the scriptures with an intent to NOT lean unto our own understanding.

            We also need to remember that the Bible says what it says no matter how any person tries to “interpret” it. I hate using that word. We shouldn’t be in the business of trying to “figure” out what the Bible says… It’s in English and if that is our language we can understand it quite clearly in almost all cases… It is the stubborn will and pride of man that makes it necessary to “interpret” Gods word, usually in ways that fit what WE want..

            I oversimplify by saying I don’t interpret the Bible I read it and where I may not always agree with it I remember that God is the righteous Judge and that HE is always right. I am the flawed creature and I am often wrong.

            Hermeneutics is the theological term for interpretation of scripture but it helps to also know the terms Exegsis and Eisegesis.. Exegesis refers to a proper and logical reading and understanding of the text in context. In fact, Exegesis basically means to lead out in Greek. As in what a normal reading would lead one to. Eisegesis in contrast means to read into or to place ones own desires, beliefs and preconceived notions, onto and INTO the scripture…

            We all need to be careful of HOW we read and interpret scripture. With a full reading of the Bible there can be NO denying that there is a Heaven and that there IS a Hell and that many will go to it. IF there is no actual or eternal Hell that makes a LOT of scripture seem contradictory and ultimately, it seems to make the Sacrifice of Christ to no effect. What need is there for the Great Commission and active witnessing if we will all go to Heaven anyway?

            Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

            What need of Judgment if we will all be grafted back unto the father?

            John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

            18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

            John 3:36 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

            Revelation 14:9-11

            And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

            The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

            And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

            Some might say, well maybe this is just for those who take the mark… Except we see that wrath of God is discussed By Jesus BEFORE Revelation was handed down to John. Also, further into Revelation we get a clarification..

            Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

            God bless!

          • As a Bible believing Christian one should settle all matters with his word. When we start thinking about our feelings, our thoughts and what seems right to us, we rather miss the bigger picture..

            Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

            Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

            Reading the stories of Job or Abraham and Isaac or even the sacrifice of Christ and we might, quite naturally say “That doesn’t seem fair, right etc”…

            The thing is GOD is holy, righteous and perfect in ALL his ways. The Bible has a LOT to say about those who choose THEIR way over Gods. Whether we’re talking about Satan and the other fallen or humans who reject Christ we are told, REPEATEDLY, that There is ONE way unto the father.

            There is NO Purgatory, there are no second chances.

            Hebrews 9:27-28

            And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

            28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

            Certainly, the Holy Spirit helps us to learn and grown in understanding of Gods’ word but we need to be searching the scriptures with an intent to NOT lean unto our own understanding.

            We also need to remember that the Bible says what it says no matter how any person tries to “interpret” it. I hate using that word. We shouldn’t be in the business of trying to “figure” out what the Bible says… It’s in English and if that is our language we can understand it quite clearly in almost all cases… It is the stubborn will and pride of man that makes it necessary to “interpret” Gods word, usually in ways that fit what WE want..

            I oversimplify by saying I don’t interpret the Bible I read it and where I may not always agree with it I remember that God is the righteous Judge and that HE is always right. I am the flawed creature and I am often wrong.

            Hermeneutics is the theological term for interpretation of scripture but it helps to also know the terms Exegsis and Eisegesis.. Exegesis refers to a proper and logical reading and understanding of the text in context. In fact, Exegesis basically means to lead out in Greek. As in what a normal reading would lead one to. Eisegesis in contrast means to read into or to place ones own desires, beliefs and preconceived notions, onto and INTO the scripture…

            We all need to be careful of HOW we read and interpret scripture. With a full reading of the Bible there can be NO denying that there is a Heaven and that there IS a Hell and that many will go to it. IF there is no actual or eternal Hell that makes a LOT of scripture seem contradictory and ultimately, it seems to make the Sacrifice of Christ to no effect. What need is there for the Great Commission and active witnessing if we will all go to Heaven anyway?

            Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

            What need of Judgment if we will all be grafted back unto the father?

            John 3 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

            18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

            John 3:36 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

            Revelation 14:9-11

            And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

            The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

            And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

            Some might say, well maybe this is just for those who take the mark… Except we see that wrath of God is discussed By Jesus BEFORE Revelation was handed down to John. Also, further into Revelation we get a clarification..

            Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

            God bless!