After a reminder & encouragement from a Brother I am updating this info to include my attackers name. As I am calling him out for his heresy I should also name him to forewarn the Brethren and those who might be misled by him. Kurt A Walker of Indianapolis.
In a minute I will post an exchange between myself and another professing Christian Kurt A Walker of Indianapolis who ignored most of the points I made, stopped conversing, blocked me and posted a hateful and false witness bearing “Review” of this ministry on Facebook.
I will post what has transpired and let the readers decide..
BEFORE I do that I want to ask three simple and direct questions….
CAN we affirm open and unrepentant homosexuality and call ourselves Christian?
CAN we preach and teach that people can live in homosexual relationships (even monogamous ones) and say we are obeying Gods word?
SHOULD we as Christians endorse Gay “marriage” and put up rainbow pictures in support of the Supreme Court ruling?
Starting from the idea that “Christians” that are supporting homosexuality may be reachable I have messaged people that I encounter who are showing rainbows on their pictures.
I will place TM before my words and bold them so you can easily see which words were mine and put KAW before all his posts/response..
TM: “I couldn’t help but notice your rainbow flag and thought I would share some information with you..
Even though I am against gay sex of any kind (as I am all unwed sex too); I supported civil unions as a fair means for committed people not able to be married to protect their commitments to each other… That wasn’t enough. It really was NEVER about gay marriage, it was about destroying the IDEA of Judeo Christian standards of morality… In particular amongst gay men, there is a near rabid promiscuity.. I know this. I used to have many friends who were gay and bi, and still have a few family members who are…. I have seen the reality of what many of them consider normal, how high the incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse and despair are… I can give you links to verifiable stories where during gay pride events there is full nudity, instruments of S&M etc on full display, even masturbation and open sex acts, sometimes in full view of CHILDREN that people bring to these events! NO one is arrested as the police are ordered to provide support and protection but NOT to arrest participants!
There has also recently been a young boy dancing erotically in nothing but denim short shorts and the attendees defended this as him “dancing to combat homophobia”… No “Church” should accept as members people they know are, (just as examples) prostitutes, porn stars, swingers, unmarried people who live together etc etc… We replace what the flesh wants for what God says and think we will not face consequences….
The next steps, and I could give you links for all this if you want them, is to force churches to marry gays and to host wedding parties and ultimately to make all open opposition to homosexuality hate speech that can be punished… The constitution means nothing anymore and religious freedoms will start being challenged more aggressively. Another logical next step that is already happening is challenges to laws against polygamy, bestiality, incest and even pedophilia…
Former Judge Robert Bork wrote a book called Slouching Toward Gomorrah YEARS ago. In it he coined a phrase “Defining deviancy down”… When people decide that there are NO standards of sexual morality? That we are all animals? NOTHING will be considered deviant. I just say that no matter how many people I love might be LGBT whatever, I once was many things that I am not anymore too by the grace of God who forgives and can change..
If you wish links to any of the info referenced just let me know!
KAW publicly responded with “Thank you for the personal facebook message, Robert Cruz. I’m sharing here so others have the opportunity to know your thoughts on marriage equality and the LGBT community, as well. Absent from this diatribe is any acknowledgement that the LGBT community is attempting to be recognized as being capable of life-long, committed relationships based on love. Instead, he focuses on his belief that same-sex couples are, by virtue of their very behavior, simply acting in a licentious way. It’s a classic argument against equality to say that the LGBTQA community only want to have sex; all the time, and with everyone… That’s not what marriage is about Mr. Cruz. Marriage is about caring for one another, it is about being in a loving, commitedrelationship to one another, it is about a commitment to God in that relationship, knowing that the horizontal can not survive without the vertical. It is about publicly holding that ceremony in God’s house, asking for God’s blessing upon the union. It’s is about imbuing our human relationships with a connection to the Divine.
Also, it appears that Robert and I disagree on the fundamental right of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Thanks be to God that there is a separation of Church and State in this country that can not be overturned by RFRA, or any other law. Pastors and churches have always had, and will continue to retain, the right to refuse marriage to anyone, at anytime. This, regardless of whether or not it is a same-sex couple, or heterosexual.
Also, to quote Robert Bork, the defacto hired-gun coward of Nixon, who earlier in his career supported the South’s wanting to impose a polling-tax on its citizens, is telling.
Mr Cruz writes:… (Here he posted my message to him)
TM: “No, thank YOU for showing that you would rather try to publicly shame someone for not seeing things exactly the way you do than to discuss it as brothers…
You bear false witness when you say that I fail to recognize that gays can be in committed relationships. That is absolutely not true.
Do YOU ignore that many gay people and in particular gay males ARE promiscuous?
More than this, does being in a committed relationship change GODS standards for sexual morality or his model of marriage?
I believe, as the Bible teaches, that ALL Sex outside GODS model of marriage is sin.
I will NO more support “gay marriage” than I will straight unmarried pride, swingers pride or anything else that God, not you or I has deemed wrong…
You also present a POOR argument by implying that my using a quote from a person supposes endorsement of EVERYTHING they’ve ever said….”
KAW “Sharing and shaming are two different things, Robert. Your exclusivity in the name of Christianity is anything but Christian. I am sharing your prejudices, so that others may see them as such.
In the meantime, you keep getting your hair cut, eating shellfish and pork, wearing that gold wedding ring on your hand (or blessing others), allowing folks who are divorced, with disabilities, or whom have tattoos into your church. You keep marrying interracial couples, pretending that folks you marry have not had pre-marital sex, or are not living together, and wearing your polyester blended shirts. According to the Bible, all of those things are also not allowed by God.
It’s not about Scriptural law, Robert. It’s about the spirit of the law. It’s about opening yourself to the possibility that the revelatory will of God’s still-speaking voice is ever unfolding for God’s people in every generation, and every nation.
This is the good news of Jesus Christ, that all are God’s people and all are equally precious and worthy beings. All is created by God, as God made them, not as others would have them be…”
TM: “Call it what you like but a private message answered in public is not a proper Christian response. I won’t wait for you to offer scripture in defense of it since you believe in a revelatory will SO strong that it can apparently re-write Gods word for mans preferences…
Apparently I share the same “prejudices” of God which is/are sin… Your cynicism aside, I teach abstinence and know that SOME people actually DO wait for marriage. I follow Gods rules for divorce etc too.
Tattoos are a ridiculous issue as they are not marking or cutting upon your flesh for the dead or for pagan Gods and the Bible NEVER forbid “interracial” marriage so shame on YOU for that one. That is either a bald faced lie or a sad view and understanding of scripture… Its about RELIGIOUS differences. We are ONE people.
Since you bring up the “law”… Do you deny that no man is justified under it but made guilty by it?
ALL people are precious and worthy which is why Christ paid the price that he did…. Do you believe that applies to ALL whether they reject him or obey him? That’s Universalism and is not scripturally supported.
You also regurgitate the same old tropes that Atheists and homosexuals who hate Christians do… Those rules were for a specific group of Jewish people and are NOT….. By a LONG shot the only words in the Bible on homosexuality.
Our fallen sin nature is not “how God made us” either.”
After that he stopped replying, blocked me and posted this “review” of Truth Ministries on Facebook…
KAW “Hello to all my LGBTQA brothers and sisters, especially in central Indiana. I received a personal facebook message, today. It’s from Robert Cruz of Truth Ministries, in Indianapolis. They are reaching out to complete strangers and attacking them because of their stance on marriage equality. They are not interested in open conversations about this issue. They are biblical literalists who use the Bible to support their own agenda, while neglecting the Bible when it suits them. They espouse Biblical truths to some of God’s Word, while neglectingothers with the defense of historical and cultural context of Hebrew Scripture. In doing so, they are hypocrites
TM: I won’t use his name here but I AM openly calling him to debate by contacting him on Facebook. STAND up and defend what you believe and the lying, words you’ve posted against me and this ministry. Don’t hide and cower. You’ve already ignored many points I made but people can decide for themselves. I never attacked you and you in fact are trying to shame me when it is you who is guilty of false witness, eisegesis and Heresy. You have shown that the truth is not in you. You’re not my Brother as I am sure you will agree yet you call ALL LGBTQA-Z your “brothers and sisters”… God,through Paul has told us about people such as you..
1 Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
And in 2 Timothy 4:1-4
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Now I ask you the reader… Who has been twisting and ignoring scripture? Who has attacked whom?
After reading both our words it is clearly Kurt A Walker that is “not interested in open conversations about this issue”. They… “use the Bible to support their own agenda, while neglecting the Bible when it suits them. They espouse Biblical truths to some of God’s Word, while neglecting others…. In doing so, they are hypocrites”.